Perpetual Centrelink Calendar 107-03040000 - Request 2
Posty made this Freedom of Information request to Services Australia
This request has been closed to new correspondence from the public body. Contact us if you think it ought be re-opened.
Dear Department of Human Services,
(ATTN Charlie)
I request, under the Freedom of Information Act 1982, copies of the following documents in their original electronic file formats (eg .html for webpages, .xlsx or .xls for spreadsheets and so on):
All documents contained within the file "Perpetual Centrelink Calendar 107-03040000" as listed on this page:
http://operational.humanservices.gov.au/...
Given you have just supplied an inferior unreadable version of this under request LEX 25125 that is not fit for purpose - you should have these on hand.
Yours faithfully,
Derek Adams
Dear Mr Adams
Please see attached correspondence in relation to your recent Freedom of
Information request.
FOI Officer
FOI and Litigation Branch
Legal Services Division
Department of Human Services
[1]cid:image001.png@01CF8C5E.459B3DD0
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You have received a secure email from the Department of Human Services.
Please select the link below to view the email.
Please note, you may have to register for this service
https://securemail.humanservices.gov.au/...
Please copy and paste the URL into your browser. If you encounter any issues, please close and reopen your browser before navigating to the URL again.
Dear Department of Human Services (Charlie),
I do hope you have a plan on how you intend getting me the password for this secure email.
Why can't you send this via a regular email?
Yours faithfully,
Derek Adams
Dear Mr Adams
I refer to your email below dated 14 June 2017.
I understand that you were dissatisfied with the quality of the PDF document provided to you as part of LEX 25125. The department apologises for the quality of the documents that were originally provided.
On 26 June 2017, the department provided you with a better quality copy of the documents (split over 11 emails due to limitations of the Right to Know website). Given that the department has now provided you with a better quality copy of the documents, can you confirm whether you would be willing to withdraw your current request for a copy of the same documents?
Kind Regards
Bruce
FOI and Litigation Branch
Legal Services Division
Department of Human Services
This email and any attachments may contain information subject to legal professional privilege or information that is otherwise sensitive or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you are prohibited from using or disseminating this communication. If you have received this communication in error please notify the sender immediately and permanently delete this email.
-----Original Message-----
From: Derek Adams [mailto:[FOI #3631 email]]
Sent: Wednesday, 14 June 2017 7:52 AM
To: FOI.LEGAL.TEAM <[email address]>
Subject: Freedom of Information request - Perpetual Centrelink Calendar 107-03040000 - Request 2
Dear Department of Human Services,
(ATTN Charlie)
I request, under the Freedom of Information Act 1982, copies of the following documents in their original electronic file formats (eg .html for webpages, .xlsx or .xls for spreadsheets and so on):
All documents contained within the file "Perpetual Centrelink Calendar 107-03040000" as listed on this page:
http://operational.humanservices.gov.au/...
Given you have just supplied an inferior unreadable version of this under request LEX 25125 that is not fit for purpose - you should have these on hand.
Yours faithfully,
Derek Adams
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Bruce,
I raised this request for the sole purpose of obtaining the electronic version of both the explanation index and the excel files of the perpetual calendar because you made it self evident that unless I directly specified the format you went off on an excel printing expedition that nobody asked for.
I have specifically stated this format and once that is delivered I will be happy to close all open requests with the department.
I repeat - how do I open the secure mail you sent? Or was the email you just sent the contents of the mail?
I will respond to lex25125 shortly.
Yours sincerely,
Derek Adams
Dear Mr Adams
Please see attached correspondence in relation to your recent Freedom of
Information request.
In reference to your email dated 4 July 2017, I confirm that the secure
email had the exact same contents as the email to which you responded.
Kind Regards
Bruce
FOI and Litigation Branch
Legal Services Division
Department of Human Services
[1]cid:image001.png@01CF8C5E.459B3DD0
This email and any attachments may contain information subject to legal
professional privilege or information that is otherwise sensitive or
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Dear Bruce,
I request the non-imposition of charges for the reasons specified and *granted* previously under LEX 25125.
Yours sincerely,
Derek Adams
Dear FOI.LEGAL.TEAM,
I note that you were due to respond by law to this request by July 14th 2017. It's August 2nd.
What's the hold up?
In your delay I noticed something in your response -
"Administrative Release of Documents
The department has administrative access arrangements ('the arrangements') for the release
of certain documents without the need for a formal FOI request. Unless you advise us
otherwise, in processing your request we may provide you with documents under these
arrangements where appropriate. Where documents are released to you under the
arrangements we will advise you in our decision letter."
Given that the purpose of administrative access to documents is meant to provide the public quicker access to documents, and you have exceeded the legal amount of time for even correspondence thus far - consider this me reminding you to provide this under freedom of information act and not administrative access (as I have contended in all relevant communications related to this file).
Yours sincerely,
Derek Adams
Dear Mr Adams
Please see attached correspondence in relation to your recent Freedom of Information request.
Section 29(6) of the FOI Act provides the department with a statutory period of thirty days in which to notify you of the outcome of the reconsideration of the preliminary estimate of charges. Given the length of your submissions and the complexity of the subject matter, the department has provided you with this response as soon as practicable. As such, the department is not in breach of any statutory obligations.
Kind Regards
Bruce
FOI Practitioner
FOI and Litigation Branch | Legal Services Division
Department of Human Services
This email and any attachments may contain information subject to legal professional privilege or information that is otherwise sensitive or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you are prohibited from using or disseminating this communication. If you have received this communication in error please notify the sender immediately and permanently delete this email.
-----Original Message-----
From: Derek Adams [mailto:[FOI #3631 email]]
Sent: Wednesday, 2 August 2017 8:37 PM
To: FOI.LEGAL.TEAM <[email address]>
Subject: Re: LEX 30212 - Communication - Preliminary assessment of charges [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
Dear FOI.LEGAL.TEAM,
I note that you were due to respond by law to this request by July 14th 2017. It's August 2nd.
What's the hold up?
In your delay I noticed something in your response -
"Administrative Release of Documents
The department has administrative access arrangements ('the arrangements') for the release of certain documents without the need for a formal FOI request. Unless you advise us otherwise, in processing your request we may provide you with documents under these arrangements where appropriate. Where documents are released to you under the arrangements we will advise you in our decision letter."
Given that the purpose of administrative access to documents is meant to provide the public quicker access to documents, and you have exceeded the legal amount of time for even correspondence thus far - consider this me reminding you to provide this under freedom of information act and not administrative access (as I have contended in all relevant communications related to this file).
Yours sincerely,
Derek Adams
-----Original Message-----
Dear Mr Adams
Please see attached correspondence in relation to your recent Freedom of Information request.
In reference to your email dated 4 July 2017, I confirm that the secure email had the exact same contents as the email to which you responded.
Kind Regards
Bruce
FOI and Litigation Branch
Legal Services Division
Department of Human Services
[1]cid:image001.png@01CF8C5E.459B3DD0
This email and any attachments may contain information subject to legal professional privilege or information that is otherwise sensitive or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you are prohibited from using or disseminating this communication. If you have received this communication in error please notify the sender immediately and permanently delete this email.
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Dear Bruce,
I present you - option D)
That was a very nice 9 page document that did not address the reason(s?) at all as far as I know.
All those reasons that you just dismissed were *already* dismissed by the department under LEX 25125 (see https://www.righttoknow.org.au/request/f... ) and I appealed to OAIC - which then the charges were waived for unknown reasons.
I asked at the time here in this correspondence:
https://www.righttoknow.org.au/request/f...
"On what grounds have you waived the charge? is it the public interest? please clarify."
I then repeated myself 3 days later and asked again in the next communication for you to clarify.
( https://www.righttoknow.org.au/request/f... )
You never clarified the reasons why you waived the charge.
So - to be perfectly clear - the reasons that you were to waive the charges are the ones that you never stated to me under LEX 25125. I can't state them, because only you can.
Bruce, we've been in this for the long haul together. I really do want to you go work on some other more pressing cases - so I'm going to give you a special limited time offer - a 48 hour only option.
for 48 hours - I will accept you providing me this electronic documents under Administrative Access and the case can be closed.
Past this time, it's back under FOI only and I will apply for an external review by the Information Commissioner.
Yours sincerely,
Derek Adams
Dear Mr Adams
I refer to your email correspondence below dated 7 August 2017.
The department's reconsideration of charges decision contained information in relation to your review rights. You are welcome to exercise your review rights in relation to the reconsideration of charges.
Kind Regards
Bruce
FOI Practitioner
FOI and Litigation Branch | Legal Services Division Department of Human Services
This email and any attachments may contain information subject to legal professional privilege or information that is otherwise sensitive or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you are prohibited from using or disseminating this communication. If you have received this communication in error please notify the sender immediately and permanently delete this email.no
-----Original Message-----
From: Derek Adams [mailto:[FOI #3631 email]]
Sent: Monday, 7 August 2017 9:40 PM
To: FOI.LEGAL.TEAM <[email address]>
Subject: RE: LEX 30212 - Communication - Preliminary assessment of charges [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
Dear Bruce,
I present you - option D)
That was a very nice 9 page document that did not address the reason(s?) at all as far as I know.
All those reasons that you just dismissed were *already* dismissed by the department under LEX 25125 (see https://www.righttoknow.org.au/request/f... ) and I appealed to OAIC - which then the charges were waived for unknown reasons.
I asked at the time here in this correspondence:
https://www.righttoknow.org.au/request/f...
"On what grounds have you waived the charge? is it the public interest? please clarify."
I then repeated myself 3 days later and asked again in the next communication for you to clarify.
( https://www.righttoknow.org.au/request/f... )
You never clarified the reasons why you waived the charge.
So - to be perfectly clear - the reasons that you were to waive the charges are the ones that you never stated to me under LEX 25125. I can't state them, because only you can.
Bruce, we've been in this for the long haul together. I really do want to you go work on some other more pressing cases - so I'm going to give you a special limited time offer - a 48 hour only option.
for 48 hours - I will accept you providing me this electronic documents under Administrative Access and the case can be closed.
Past this time, it's back under FOI only and I will apply for an external review by the Information Commissioner.
Yours sincerely,
Derek Adams
-----Original Message-----
Dear Mr Adams
Please see attached correspondence in relation to your recent Freedom of Information request.
Section 29(6) of the FOI Act provides the department with a statutory period of thirty days in which to notify you of the outcome of the reconsideration of the preliminary estimate of charges. Given the length of your submissions and the complexity of the subject matter, the department has provided you with this response as soon as practicable. As such, the department is not in breach of any statutory obligations.
Kind Regards
Bruce
FOI Practitioner
FOI and Litigation Branch | Legal Services Division Department of Human Services
This email and any attachments may contain information subject to legal professional privilege or information that is otherwise sensitive or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you are prohibited from using or disseminating this communication. If you have received this communication in error please notify the sender immediately and permanently delete this email.
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This request has been made by an individual using Right to Know. This message and any reply that you make will be published on the internet. More information on how Right to Know works can be found at:
https://www.righttoknow.org.au/help/offi...
If you find this service useful as an FOI officer, please ask your web manager to link to us from your organisation's FOI page.
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Dear Bruce,
An OAIC external review has been lodged.
A reminder - should fees be waived, the documents should be provided under the FOI act with your disclosure log updated.
Yours sincerely,
Derek Adams
Dear Charlie,
I was just advised by OAIC that they have found that the charge for this should be waived along with a lengthy, detailed takedown of every single reason you have put forth noting specifically.
"In making this finding, I draw the Department’s attention to the objects of the FOI Act that guide the charges framework. 8 As referred to at [14], it is implicit that a charge must not be used to unnecessarily delay access or discourage an applicant from exercising the right of access conferred by the FOI Act and that charges should fairly reflect the work involved in providing access to documents on request. Where a charge is justified, it would be in keeping with the objects of the FOI Act to ensure that the method of payment should also facilitate prompt access to the documents."
Can you please confirm your receipt of this message?
Yours sincerely,
Derek
(I started this on the 9th of January 2017, I think we've been through enough that we can be on a first name basis)
Dear Mr Adams
Please see attached correspondence relating to your Freedom of Information
request.
Kind Regards
Bruce
FOI Team
FOI and Litigation Branch
Legal Services Division
Department of Human Services
Email: [1][email address]
[2]cid:image004.png@01D1B4D9.510E2740
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Dear Bruce,
Firstly, I'd like to begin with an apology.
I've made some assumptions based on the data provided - and ultimately I'm not quite sure if they're correct. When I received the first FOI I thought the debt calculator might be a webpage, then we got the better resolution version and it certainly looked a lot like a spreadsheet. I've received information outside of this process that leads me to believe that neither of these is the case and now I'm none the wiser.
the FOI Legal team have not volunteered any useful information in regard to the calculator despite plenty of opportunities to do so.
The details of the 'original electronic documents' in your response are not explained adequately as to why I cannot have access to them. The only option you outline in a response is an OAIC review or an internal review - leaving no room for discussion. Thus - technically I am requesting an internal review taking in the communication below into account.
you assert:
"I note you have requested access to the document in its ‘original electronic file format.’ The
document within the scope of your request is located on the department’s internal intranet.
It is not possible for the Department to provide you with access to the document in its original
electronic format, as to do so would require the Department to facilitate your access to the
Department’s intranet, which is only accessible to Department employees."
Put simply in technical terms - unless the entirety of the data is not in a standalone electronic file or series of files of some sort (such as a remote server)- this cannot be the case.
What this all comes down to is the simple question - please advise (in the most explicit technical detail) what the format of the perpetual debt calendar 'calculator' tool is in?
Is the perpetual debt calendar 'calculator' tool:
A) a web based internally hosted tool that cannot be saved locally to a computer, and thus shared outside the network in any form other than 'screen scraped' copies as before (be it email, or physical media)?
B) a mainframe system/application that cannot be saved locally to a computer, and thus shared outside the network in any form other than 'screen scraped' copies as before(be it email, or physical media)?
C) some type of Microsoft Office document that can be shared in any form (preferably email)?
D) A custom developed program complete with executable files and libraries that can be run on a standalone computer?
E) something else I haven't thought of?
My communications with you has always indicated that I would like access to the tool, so that others do not have to await a response from your department. I've received communications from former CDPP staff that indicate that your printouts are not sufficient and have to be typed into spreadsheets to support this claim.
Your own internal documentation states in the documents you have provided here and previously:
"Note: do not save the calculator to your PC or local drive as this will prevent the maintenance of accurate and
important statistics on the usage of this tool."
This indicates that "the calculator" is able to be downloaded and run successfully on departmental computers, and therefore likely on external computers as well in one format or another. Should it not work at all, there would have been no need for the note to exist.
Therefore, the documents you have provided do not match the original scope of the request and are missing.
I will note, in the prior request for the same document, upon initial inspection it was 3 pages, but upon further inspection the scope was 108 pages.
This does not include the 'calculator' program/file therefore documents are missing and if you are indeed supplying it in an alternate format - you have not provided the 108 pages I know are required from the previous request.
Please - consider this request very carefully - I do not wish to have to engage the Office of the Information Commissioner again, they are very competent at their jobs but I would view this as an unnecessary delay that you have been specifically warned against using the FOI process for.
I will if I have to and it will be incumbent on your response whether I do so.
Yours sincerely,
Derek
Dear Mr Adams
Please find attached correspondence in relation to your request for
internal review (LEX 33696).
Regards
Jack
FOI Legal Team
FOI and Litigation Branch | Legal Services Division
Department of Human Services
* [1][email address]
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Dear Jack,
It is now past 5pm January 2nd, 2018 - which was the deadline quoted in your correspondence.
I hope you all had a nice holiday period.
When can I expect your internal review?
Yours sincerely,
Derek
Dear Mr Adams
Please find attached correspondence in relation to your request for
Freedom of Information internal review (LEX 33696).
Regards
Jack
FOI Legal Team
FOI and Litigation Branch | Legal Services Division
Department of Human Services
* [1][email address]
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Justin Warren left an annotation ()
Nice one, Derek!