All inward facing documents on the combined library of information and knowledge (CLIK).
Arthur Jordan made this Freedom of Information request to Department of Veterans' Affairs
Dear Department of Veterans' Affairs,
Under FOI I request all inward facing documents on the combined library of information and knowledge (CLIK).
Yours faithfully,
Arthur Jordan
Dear Mr Jordan
The Department of Veterans’ Affairs (the department) has received your
request for access to information under the Freedom of Information Act
1982 (FOI Act). I note you have requested access to the following:
‘I request all inward facing documents on the combined
library of information and knowledge (CLIK).’
Your request was received by the department on 5 January 2023 and the
ordinary 30 day statutory period for processing your request commenced
from the day after that date.
Extension of Time
Due to an increase in the number of information access applications
currently being received by the department, we are asking your agreement
to an extension of time for a further 30 days to process this request
under section 15AA of the FOI Act. This would mean that your request is
due on 8 March 2023.
If we are in a position to make a decision on your request earlier than
this date, we will endeavour to do so.
The statutory period may also be extended if we need to consult third
parties or for other reasons permitted under the FOI Act. We will advise
you if this happens.
If you do agree we will notify the Office of the Australian Information
Commissioner (OAIC) of your agreement under section 15AA of the FOI Act.
Charges
The Department will notify you within 14 days of an estimate of the
charges that may apply to your request for non-personal information before
we process any requested documents or impose a final charge.
Your address
The FOI Act requires that you provide us with an address that we can send
notices to. You have advised your email address is
[1][FOI #9779 email]. Unless you tell us
otherwise, we will send all notices and correspondence to this address.
Disclosure log
Information released under the FOI Act may be published on a disclosure
log on our website, subject to certain exceptions. These exceptions
include where publication of personal, business, professional or
commercial information would be unreasonable.
Request to treat certain material as out of scope or irrelevant to the
request
To the extent the department has documents in its possession that fall
within the scope of your request, we intend to treat the following
information as out of scope or irrelevant to your request, pursuant to
section 22(1)(b)(ii) of the FOI Act:
1. The surnames, signatures and direct contact details of non-SES
Commonwealth employees and contractors, including clinical staff working
for Open Arms – Veterans & Families Counselling; and
2. The signatures of third party individuals.
If you agree to the department treating these details as irrelevant, and
to our request for an extension of time, please advise by
13 January 2023.
Further assistance
If you have any questions about your request, please email
[2][DVA request email].
Regards
Fiona Position Number – 62211034
Information Access Registrations Officer
Information Access Unit / Client Access and Rehabilitation Branch
Client Engagement and Support Services Division
Department of Veterans’ Affairs
1800 VETERAN (1800 838 372)
[3][DVA request email]
[4]www.dva.gov.au
[5]cid:image002.png@01D7B6E3.69D49590[6]cid:image003.png@01D7B6E3.69D49590[7]cid:image004.png@01D7B6E3.69D49590[8]cid:image005.png@01D7B6E3.69D49590
[9]cid:image008.jpg@01D8EA24.8F7FA8A0
[10]cid:image009.jpg@01D8EA24.8F7FA8A0
References
Visible links
1. mailto:[FOI #9779 email]
2. mailto:[DVA request email]
3. mailto:[DVA request email]
4. http://www.dva.gov.au/
5. https://www.facebook.com/DVAAus
6. https://twitter.com/DVAAus
7. https://au.linkedin.com/company/australi...
8. https://www.youtube.com/DVATVAus
Dear Mr Jordan,
Please find attached practical refusal notice for LEX 55381
Kind Regards
Sharmila| Information Access Officer
Position 62210944
Information Access Unit I Client Access and Rehab Branch
Client Engage and Support Services Division
Department of Veterans’ Affairs
Tel 1800 VETERAN (1800 838 372)
[1][DVA request email]
[2]www.dva.gov.au
[3]cid:image001.png@01D8EB91.114F8900[4]cid:image002.png@01D8EB91.114F8900[5]cid:image003.png@01D8EB91.114F8900[6]cid:image004.png@01D8EB91.114F8900
[7]cid:image015.jpg@01D8EB92.147FEBF0
[8]cid:image019.jpg@01D8EB92.147FEBF0
References
Visible links
1. mailto:[DVA request email]
2. http://www.dva.gov.au/
3. https://www.facebook.com/DVAAus
4. https://twitter.com/DVAAus
5. https://au.linkedin.com/company/australi...
6. https://www.youtube.com/DVATVAus
Dear INFORMATION.ACCESS,
I refer to your Practical refusal notice under s 24AB LEX 55381.
I have perused your most recent Staff Training Module "Information Access -FOI Training (revised April 2022) and, once again, find that I have to remind you that your 1st step before writing this Practical Refusal notice is to contact the Applicant (me) INFORMALLY and to assist me as best you can in attempting to revise the scope so as to overcome the Practical refusal reasons. (see obligation to assist applicant to make request valid and section 24AB provides for a practical refusal consultation if a request remains unclear after informal consultation).
Your training module further states the following:-
Practical Refusal – section 24AA and 25AB of the FOI Act
•
The request is voluminous (substantial and unreasonable diversion of department resources –s 24AA(1)(a)(i))
•
The request is unclear (does not sufficiently identify documents -s24AA(1)(b) and s 15(2)(b))
•
Always INFORMALLY consult first
•
Then proceed to formal consultation if necessary under section 24AB of the FOI Act
•
Don’t forget there is an obligation to PROVIDE ASSISTANCE to the applicant.
....and again further on Practical Refusal:- INFORMAL CONSULTATION:
•
Wherever possible INFORMALLY CONSULT with the applicant on the scope of the request.
•
Call the applicant if you can and follow up any phone calls in writing.
•
If a call is not possible, email the applicant with questions about their request.
•
Talk to them about the general nature of the documents we hold and what kinds of documents they require.
•
Ask for business area assistance if you aren’t sure about the request or documents that the Department might hold.
•
We have an OVERARCHING OBLIGATION TO ASSIST Applicants in making their FOI requests successful.
....and again
Practical Refusal
•
Unclear requests s 24AA(1)(b)
•
The request is unclear (sufficiently identify documents)
•
Reasonable interpretation
•
Don’t be pedantic
•
FOI officers have an obligation to assist the applicant to revise (more than once)
•
INFORMAL CONSULTATION FIRST
•
Need to be able to reasonable understand and identify the scope of the request.
.....and again
24AB Consultation Process
During the consultation period, DVA must take reasonable steps to ASSIST THE APPLICANT to revise the request so that the practical refusal reason no longer exists.
I would also ask as to why someone could not have, in the first instance, called me on the phone to discuss this matter. This has been the procedure of the Defence Department and many other Government Departments I have had FOI dealings with. This would have been a much friendlier and collegiate way to deal with FOI (and other) matters in my opinion. You would also confirm that I don't bite, raise my voice nor treat you with a lack of respect. Currently this letter only approach gives me the impression that you are only going through the motions because the law says you must, not because you want to be helpful to me in a friendly and courteous manner.
If you are NOT going to follow your own Training Modules (informal contact, offer every assistance to Applicants etc) then why have them at all. I'm sure that Molly Cooke and other Spark Helmore staff employed by DVA would not be happy with you disregarding their efforts to train you. If the Modules are NOT followed then Molly and co, would be out of a job.
I also refer you to the evidence, on oath, given to a recent AAT hearing by Luke Brown of DVA relating to the supply by him copies of Inward facing CLIK documents if and when requested amongst other interesting evidence.
I look forward to your kindly reply. Feel free to phone me to discuss further. You have all my private details.
Yours sincerely,
Arthur Jordan
Dear INFORMATION.ACCESS,
Pursuant to my recent telephone discussion with Sharmila (which should have been held prior to writing a formal letter according to your own Policies. This will be raised as a separate issue direct with the new DVA Secretary, Ms. Frame) I confirm the contents and make the following suggestions so as to remove a Practical Refusal issue raised by her.
I have raised the letters contents with various Veterans who live and breath Drupal and know its inner workings and how to use it to its fullest. These are some suggestions which should remove the Practical Refusal reasons.
1. In Reference to the PDF letter and its sections, responses are noted in quote marks.
Sec 11 - The request requires exporting all internal contents to a common acceptable format such as HTML. “The DVA has access via HTML (web base)”
It is assumed that the search will encompass CLIK in its entirety. “This could be limited to the DVA, and this should have been the assumed access as it was to the DVA FOI business area not Services Australia.”
Sec 20 - A revised request may state “with no limitation on the evidence given at the AAT by Luke Brown, and noting if all your assumptions are correct, a quick and easy way is to set up a user profile so I have any time access to the inward facing CLIK. This would be a username and password.”
2. Another option might be to modify the request to specify one document and one document only; the database schema for CLIK.
This will provide us with a list of all tables that are on CLIK without providing the documents.
Once we understand the format of the database, we can then request the contents of a specific table. The table will be the one which holds all the files that are displayed.
From there we can then request the specific files.
If this option doesn’t work because it’s not hosted on a database, we simply request a sitemap which includes the full details of every page, including those only internally available.
The IT department will be the custodians of this information.
The search should take no longer than 15 minutes.
3. A further way to resolve your issues raised is to seek a Table be produced in accordance with Sec. 17 of the FOI Act, specifying the names and/or titles of ALL inward facing documents in CLIK.
As you are required to assist me as best you can in resolving the issues raised in your formal Practical Refusal notice, I request that you evaluate ALL my suggestions, in their order, and advise if any or all of them will assist me in a successful FOI application in accordance with your FOI Policy.
By way of Obiter Dictum, can you advise why documents relating to DVA matters only are hidden from view and also why they are hosted on Services Australia Servers and NOT on DVA Webservers? The current situation has some concerning Privacy issues.
Yours sincerely,
Arthur Jordan
Dear Mr Jordan,
Thank you for your email.
Your suggestions to revise the scope of the request have been returned to the relevant business area to check if any of those are feasible.
We will inform you of the possibilities once we receive advise from the business area.
Kind Regards
Sharmila| Information Access Officer
Position 62210944
Information Access Unit I Client Access and Rehab Branch
Client Engage and Support Services Division
Department of Veterans’ Affairs
Tel 1800 VETERAN (1800 838 372)
[DVA request email]
www.dva.gov.au
-----Original Message-----
From: Arthur Jordan <[FOI #9779 email]>
Sent: Wednesday, 1 February 2023 12:56 PM
To: INFORMATION.ACCESS <[email address]>
Subject: Re: Response Required- Practical refusal notice-LEX 55381 JORDAN Arthur [SEC=OFFICIAL]
Dear INFORMATION.ACCESS,
Pursuant to my recent telephone discussion with Sharmila (which should have been held prior to writing a formal letter according to your own Policies. This will be raised as a separate issue direct with the new DVA Secretary, Ms. Frame) I confirm the contents and make the following suggestions so as to remove a Practical Refusal issue raised by her.
I have raised the letters contents with various Veterans who live and breath Drupal and know its inner workings and how to use it to its fullest. These are some suggestions which should remove the Practical Refusal reasons.
1. In Reference to the PDF letter and its sections, responses are noted in quote marks.
Sec 11 - The request requires exporting all internal contents to a common acceptable format such as HTML. “The DVA has access via HTML (web base)”
It is assumed that the search will encompass CLIK in its entirety. “This could be limited to the DVA, and this should have been the assumed access as it was to the DVA FOI business area not Services Australia.”
Sec 20 - A revised request may state “with no limitation on the evidence given at the AAT by Luke Brown, and noting if all your assumptions are correct, a quick and easy way is to set up a user profile so I have any time access to the inward facing CLIK. This would be a username and password.”
2. Another option might be to modify the request to specify one document and one document only; the database schema for CLIK.
This will provide us with a list of all tables that are on CLIK without providing the documents.
Once we understand the format of the database, we can then request the contents of a specific table. The table will be the one which holds all the files that are displayed.
From there we can then request the specific files.
If this option doesn’t work because it’s not hosted on a database, we simply request a sitemap which includes the full details of every page, including those only internally available.
The IT department will be the custodians of this information.
The search should take no longer than 15 minutes.
3. A further way to resolve your issues raised is to seek a Table be produced in accordance with Sec. 17 of the FOI Act, specifying the names and/or titles of ALL inward facing documents in CLIK.
As you are required to assist me as best you can in resolving the issues raised in your formal Practical Refusal notice, I request that you evaluate ALL my suggestions, in their order, and advise if any or all of them will assist me in a successful FOI application in accordance with your FOI Policy.
By way of Obiter Dictum, can you advise why documents relating to DVA matters only are hidden from view and also why they are hosted on Services Australia Servers and NOT on DVA Webservers? The current situation has some concerning Privacy issues.
Yours sincerely,
Arthur Jordan
-----Original Message-----
Dear Mr Jordan,
Please find attached practical refusal notice for LEX 55381
Kind Regards
Sharmila| Information Access Officer
Position 62210944
Information Access Unit I Client Access and Rehab Branch
Client Engage and Support Services Division
Department of Veterans’ Affairs
Tel 1800 VETERAN (1800 838 372)
[1][DVA request email]
[2]www.dva.gov.au
[3]cid:image001.png@01D8EB91.114F8900[4]cid:image002.png@01D8EB91.114F8900[5]cid:image003.png@01D8EB91.114F8900[6]cid:image004.png@01D8EB91.114F8900
[7]cid:image015.jpg@01D8EB92.147FEBF0
[8]cid:image019.jpg@01D8EB92.147FEBF0
References
Visible links
1. mailto:[DVA request email]
3. https://www.facebook.com/DVAAus
5. https://au.linkedin.com/company/australi...
6. https://www.youtube.com/DVATVAus
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Please use this email address for all replies to this request:
[FOI #9779 email]
This request has been made by an individual using Right to Know. This message and any reply that you make will be published on the internet. More information on how Right to Know works can be found at:
https://www.righttoknow.org.au/help/offi...
Please note that in some cases publication of requests and responses will be delayed.
If you find this service useful as an FOI officer, please ask your web manager to link to us from your organisation's FOI page.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Mr Jordan,
As per our correspondence on 2/02/2023, your revised scope was forwarded
to the relevant business area for consideration.
We have been advised that your revised scope still remains resource
intensive and impractical to proceed.
As such, please find attached a Practical Refusal Decision Letter for LEX
55381.
Kind Regards
Sharmila| Information Access Officer
Position 62210944
Information Access Unit I Client Access and Rehab Branch
Client Engage and Support Services Division
Department of Veterans’ Affairs
Tel 1800 VETERAN (1800 838 372)
[1][DVA request email]
[2]www.dva.gov.au
[3]cid:image001.png@01D8EB91.114F8900[4]cid:image002.png@01D8EB91.114F8900[5]cid:image003.png@01D8EB91.114F8900[6]cid:image004.png@01D8EB91.114F8900
[7]cid:image015.jpg@01D8EB92.147FEBF0
[8]cid:image019.jpg@01D8EB92.147FEBF0
References
Visible links
1. mailto:[DVA request email]
2. http://www.dva.gov.au/
3. https://www.facebook.com/DVAAus
4. https://twitter.com/DVAAus
5. https://au.linkedin.com/company/australi...
6. https://www.youtube.com/DVATVAus
Dear Department of Veterans' Affairs,
Please pass this on to the person who conducts Freedom of Information reviews.
I am writing to request an internal review of Department of Veterans' Affairs's handling of my FOI request 'All inward facing documents on the combined library of information and knowledge (CLIK).'.
1. The person (Sharmila) who originally handled my FOI request did NOT follow all procedures set out by the DVA (see correspondence herewith) which she admitted to.
2. I set out several suggestions which would assist in removing the refusal issues. One suggestion was NOT even addressed by the person, Sharmila (that relating to evidence, on oath, given to an AAT hearing by Luke Brown of DVA regarding his views of "hiding" documents from Veterans and the public via an "Inward Facing CLIK" and the helpful procedures he would follow if faced with a request such as this. One suggestion was addressed by way of making a conclusion only and NOT listing the evidence or facts to support that conclusion (S. 17 table).
3. The other 2 suggestions were dismissed because of information allegedly provided by an unknown "expert". I had supplied "technical" suggestions of my own which were NOT taken into account. The veracity of ALL the evidence allegedly considered by Sharmila was NOT weighed and reasons given as to why one "experts" evidence was preferred over anothers.
I am reproducing herewith the full text of my response to the formal letter sent to me by Sharmila of DVA Information Access for your information and attention:-
"Dear INFORMATION.ACCESS,
I refer to your Practical refusal notice under s 24AB LEX 55381.
I have perused your most recent Staff Training Module "Information Access -FOI Training (revised April 2022) and, once again, find that I have to remind you that your 1st step before writing this Practical Refusal notice is to contact the Applicant (me) INFORMALLY and to assist me as best you can in attempting to revise the scope so as to overcome the Practical refusal reasons. (see obligation to assist applicant to make request valid and section 24AB provides for a practical refusal consultation if a request remains unclear after informal consultation).
Your training module further states the following:-
Practical Refusal – section 24AA and 25AB of the FOI Act
•
The request is voluminous (substantial and unreasonable diversion of department resources –s 24AA(1)(a)(i))
•
The request is unclear (does not sufficiently identify documents -s24AA(1)(b) and s 15(2)(b))
•
Always INFORMALLY consult first
•
Then proceed to formal consultation if necessary under section 24AB of the FOI Act
•
Don’t forget there is an obligation to PROVIDE ASSISTANCE to the applicant.
....and again further on Practical Refusal:- INFORMAL CONSULTATION:
•
Wherever possible INFORMALLY CONSULT with the applicant on the scope of the request.
•
Call the applicant if you can and follow up any phone calls in writing.
•
If a call is not possible, email the applicant with questions about their request.
•
Talk to them about the general nature of the documents we hold and what kinds of documents they require.
•
Ask for business area assistance if you aren’t sure about the request or documents that the Department might hold.
•
We have an OVERARCHING OBLIGATION TO ASSIST Applicants in making their FOI requests successful.
....and again
Practical Refusal
•
Unclear requests s 24AA(1)(b)
•
The request is unclear (sufficiently identify documents)
•
Reasonable interpretation
•
Don’t be pedantic
•
FOI officers have an obligation to assist the applicant to revise (more than once)
•
INFORMAL CONSULTATION FIRST
•
Need to be able to reasonable understand and identify the scope of the request.
.....and again
24AB Consultation Process
During the consultation period, DVA must take reasonable steps to ASSIST THE APPLICANT to revise the request so that the practical refusal reason no longer exists.
I would also ask as to why someone could not have, in the first instance, called me on the phone to discuss this matter. This has been the procedure of the Defence Department and many other Government Departments I have had FOI dealings with. This would have been a much friendlier and collegiate way to deal with FOI (and other) matters in my opinion. You would also confirm that I don't bite, raise my voice nor treat you with a lack of respect. Currently this letter only approach gives me the impression that you are only going through the motions because the law says you must, not because you want to be helpful to me in a friendly and courteous manner.
If you are NOT going to follow your own Training Modules (informal contact, offer every assistance to Applicants etc) then why have them at all. I'm sure that Molly Cooke and other Spark Helmore staff employed by DVA would not be happy with you disregarding their efforts to train you. If the Modules are NOT followed then Molly and co, would be out of a job.
I also refer you to the evidence, on oath, given to a recent AAT hearing by Luke Brown of DVA relating to the supply by him copies of Inward facing CLIK documents if and when requested amongst other interesting evidence.
I look forward to your kindly reply. Feel free to phone me to discuss further. You have all my private details.
Yours sincerely,
Arthur Jordan"
A full history of my FOI request and all correspondence is available on the Internet at this address: https://www.righttoknow.org.au/request/a...
Yours faithfully,
Arthur Jordan
Dear Mr Jordan
The Department of Veterans’ Affairs (the department) has received your
request for internal review of the Department’s decision (LEX 55381) under
the Freedom of Information Act 1982 (FOI Act). Your internal review
request reads as follows:
‘I am writing to request an internal review of Department of Veterans'
Affairs's handling of my FOI request 'All inward facing documents on the
combined library of information and knowledge (CLIK).’
Your request for internal review was received by the department on 16
February 2023 and the 30 day statutory period for processing your request
commenced from the day after that date.
Where possible, your request for internal review will be handled by an FOI
officer authorised decision-maker who was not involved in the original
decision.
Your address
The FOI Act requires that you provide us with an address that we can send
notices to. You have advised your email address is
[1][FOI #9779 email]. Unless you tell us
otherwise, we will send all notices and correspondence to this address.
Disclosure log
Information released under the FOI Act may be published on a disclosure
log on our website, subject to certain exceptions. These exceptions
include where publication of personal, business, professional or
commercial information would be unreasonable.
Further assistance
If you have any questions about your request, please email
[2][DVA request email].
Regards
Fiona
Position Number – 62211034
Information Access Registrations Officer
Information Access Unit / Client Access and Rehabilitation Branch
Client Engagement and Support Services Division
Department of Veterans’ Affairs
1800 VETERAN (1800 838 372)
[3][DVA request email]
[4]www.dva.gov.au
[5]cid:image002.png@01D7B6E3.69D49590[6]cid:image003.png@01D7B6E3.69D49590[7]cid:image004.png@01D7B6E3.69D49590[8]cid:image005.png@01D7B6E3.69D49590
[9]cid:image008.jpg@01D8EA24.8F7FA8A0
[10]cid:image009.jpg@01D8EA24.8F7FA8A0
References
Visible links
1. mailto:[FOI #9779 email]
2. mailto:[DVA request email]
3. mailto:[DVA request email]
4. http://www.dva.gov.au/
5. https://www.facebook.com/DVAAus
6. https://twitter.com/DVAAus
7. https://au.linkedin.com/company/australi...
8. https://www.youtube.com/DVATVAus
Dear Mr Jordan,
I refer to your request for an internal review of LEX 55381 to the
Department of Veterans’ Affairs (Department) – LEX 56160.
Please find the Department’s decision attached.
Kind regards
Ramona | Assistant Director
Position Number: 62336362
Information Access Unit I Client Access and Rehabilitation Branch
Client Engagement and Support Services Division
Department of Veterans’ Affairs
Tel 1800 838 372 (1800 VETERAN)
e [1][email address]
[2]www.dva.gov.au
[3]cid:image002.png@01D7B6E3.69D49590[4]cid:image003.png@01D7B6E3.69D49590[5]cid:image004.png@01D7B6E3.69D49590[6]cid:image005.png@01D7B6E3.69D49590
[7]cid:image009.jpg@01D8EDC8.743A0070
[8]cid:image010.jpg@01D8EDC8.743A0070
References
Visible links
1. mailto:[email address]
2. http://www.dva.gov.au/
3. https://www.facebook.com/DVAAus
4. https://twitter.com/DVAAus
5. https://au.linkedin.com/company/australi...
6. https://www.youtube.com/DVATVAus
Arthur Jordan left an annotation ()
IC Review filed.