Planned ESORT changes in line with evidence at Royal Commission into Defence and Veterans Suicide.
Arthur Jordan made this Freedom of Information request to Department of Veterans' Affairs
Dear Department of Veterans' Affairs,
Background:- Sworn evidence given by senior DVA staff before Commissioners Kaldas and Douglas regarding the composition of ESORT.
15 April 2022
More interesting evidence from Kate Pope (DVA) recently regarding the composition of the ESORT.
"CHAIR: Just a couple of brief points.
Ms Pope, you just discussed with Commissioner Douglas the issue of the ESOs, but I gather for your ESO Round Table, you have a smaller number than the 3,500 to 5,000 that we are hearing about. How are they selected?
KATE POPE: That is a good question. The ESO Round Table was established long before I joined the department six years ago, so -- but they are the organisations you would expect to see. So the RSL, the War Widows Guild, the Legacy. I could list them on the -- Vietnam Veterans' Associations, and so on and so forth, but I can't really say how they came to be the core of that group, but they are the established and recognised organisations.
We also have other forums, including the Younger Veterans Forum, that has representation from some of the newer organisations that are more focused on younger veterans, and we also have one focused on older veterans and issues of ageing, and so on. So there are some more sort of special interest focused forums under the banner of a National Consultative Forum that we operate, but the ESORT is the principal one with the established ex-service organisations.
CHAIR: I appreciate that, and I am not being critical in any way, but is it sort of a position for life? It is not assessed on a five-yearly basis, or something?
KATE POPE: Not that I am aware of, no.
CHAIR: So once you're in, you're in.
KATE POPE: You kind of in, yes.".
It appears that the RC thinks that the ESORT membership is definitely in need of a refresher, at least every 5 years.
04 August 2022
...and once again:-
"CHAIR: Thank you.
Ms Pope, just in relation to the ESORT, the group that comes together, we have heard evidence about it previously on a number of occasions, and please forgive me if my memory is not the best, but I understand there is some work going on at the moment in terms of defining criteria for membership and possibly for tenure of how long membership is for. I understand at the moment there is no limited tenure; people are on there, effectively, for life. Can you let us know where that is at, if there is a work going on in that space?
KATE POPE: I'm sorry, I'm actually not aware of work going on in that space. There could be, but I'm not directly responsible for it. So I am sorry, I don't really know.
CHAIR: No problem. Are you able to take that on notice and perhaps the Department can get back to us on that issue? My memory, and I'm happy to be corrected, from previous evidence from other senior officers is that they were looking at that issue, because at the moment, as I understand it, both in terms of eligibility for membership and for tenure of membership, it's not clear.
KATE POPE: I can certainly confirm that what you just said is accurate, to my understanding, and yes, we would be happy to take the question for future on notice.
CHAIR: I'd be grateful if we can find out if there is work going on in terms of defining these issues more clearly or not.
KATE POPE: Yes, certainly."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CHAIR: Thank you. You mentioned earlier that legislation is an area crying out for reform. You would agree with that?
A. Yes.
CHAIR: You mentioned earlier and I think you stated clearly that you were surprised there hadn't been more legal legwork done to reform legislation?
A. Yes, it would have been useful to see some options
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMISSIONER DOUGLAS: And then about ESORT, you mentioned it. And what we've heard before ESORT's composition seems to be fixed by DVA and to remain fixed. Is there any view that you have about whether ESORT should be -- have some more flexible and representative body?
A. Yes, I think so, that is one of the things that I think they should be looking at in terms of potentially opening it up.
I seen copies of all documents (including drafts) relating to changes by DVA to ESORT and its composition in line with the comments of DVA staff reproduced herewith.
I do not seek details of any private individuals. Details of any Commonwealth employees including but not limited to their work email address, work telephone numbers and names are to be treated as in scope and are not to be redacted. Follow the OAIC guidelines and policies.
Yours faithfully,
Arthur Jordan
Thank you for your email. Please accept this automatic reply as
confirmation the Information Access Unit has received your email. An IA
Officer will contact you in due course, we appreciate your patience in the
interim.
This email is monitored during business hours Monday to Friday excluding
Public Holidays.
The Open Arms Veterans & Families Counselling service is available to
support members of the veteran and ex-service community and their families
and can be contacted toll free on 1800 011 046 (24/7). This number is for
counselling only. If you require urgent assistance, please call 000. If
you are unwell, please contact your local doctor or go to your nearest
hospital. You can also visit the Open Arms
website [1]https://www.openarms.gov.au/
References
Visible links
1. https://www.openarms.gov.au/%0dThe%20Saf...
Dear Mr Jordan,
The Department of Veterans' Affairs (the department) has received your
request for access to information under the Freedom of Information Act
1982 (FOI Act). I note you have requested access to the following:
''I seek copies of all documents (including drafts) relating to changes by
DVA to ESORT and its composition in line with the comments of DVA staff
reproduced herewith.'
Your request was received by the department on 26 March 2023 and the
ordinary 30 day statutory period for processing your request commenced
from the day after that date.
Extension of Time
Due to an increase in the number of information access applications
currently being received by the department, we are asking your agreement
to an extension of time for a further 30 days to process this request
under section 15AA of the FOI Act. This would mean that your request is
due on 25 May 2023.
If we are in a position to make a decision on your request earlier than
this date, we will endeavour to do so.
The statutory period may also be extended if we need to consult third
parties or for other reasons permitted under the FOI Act. We will advise
you if this happens.
Please reply by return email if you agree to this extension of time. If
you do agree we will notify the Office of the Australian Information
Commissioner (OAIC) of your agreement under section 15AA of the FOI Act.
Charges
The Department will notify you within 14 days of an estimate of the
charges that will apply to your request for non-personal information
before we process any requested documents or impose a final charge.
Your address
The FOI Act requires that you provide us with an address that we can send
notices to. You have advised your electronic address is
[1][email address] . Unless you tell us
otherwise, we will send all notices and correspondence to this address.
Disclosure log
Information released under the FOI Act may be published on a disclosure
log on our website, subject to certain exceptions. These exceptions
include where publication of personal, business, professional or
commercial information would be unreasonable.
Request to treat certain material as out of scope or irrelevant to the
request
To the extent the department has documents in its possession that fall
within the scope of your request, we intend to treat the following
information as out of scope or irrelevant to your request, pursuant to
section 22(1)(b)(ii) of the FOI Act:
1. The surnames, signatures and direct contact details of non-SES
Commonwealth employees and contractors, including clinical staff working
for Open Arms - Veterans & Families Counselling; and
2. The signatures of third party individuals.
If you agree to the department treating these details as irrelevant,
please advise by 3 April 2023.
Further assistance
If you have any questions about your request, please email
[2][DVA request email]
We look forward to receiving your response to our request for an extension
of time and for the removal of certain information as out of scope from
your request.
Yours sincerely
Kevin Position Number – 62210946
Information Access Officer
Information Access Unit I Client Access and Rehabilitation Branch
Client Engagement and Support Services Division
Department of Veterans’ Affairs
1800 VETERAN (1800 838 372)
[3][DVA request email]
[4]www.dva.gov.au
[5]cid:image002.png@01D7B6E3.69D49590[6]cid:image003.png@01D7B6E3.69D49590[7]cid:image004.png@01D7B6E3.69D49590[8]cid:image005.png@01D7B6E3.69D49590
[9]cid:image008.jpg@01D8EA24.8F7FA8A0
[10]cid:image009.jpg@01D8EA24.8F7FA8A0
References
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3. mailto:[DVA request email]
4. http://www.dva.gov.au/
5. https://www.facebook.com/DVAAus
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7. https://au.linkedin.com/company/australi...
8. https://www.youtube.com/DVATVAus
Dear INFORMATION.ACCESS,
Dear Sir,
I refer to your request for a 30 day extension of this FOI request.
As I have previously advised Ramona (Dep. Director), I do not want to appear to be adversarial (despite previous actions by DVA staff towards me), therefore I am prepared to consent to your request for a 30 day extension to fulfill this FOI request.
As I have also stated to Ramona and other staff, you are more than welcome to speak to me via telephone to clarify anything. You will find that I don't bite, raise my voice nor treat you with anything other than courtesy and respect. I trust that this will be reciprocated.
Yours sincerely,
Arthur Jordan
Thank you for your email. Please accept this automatic reply as
confirmation the Information Access Unit has received your email. An IA
Officer will contact you in due course, we appreciate your patience in the
interim.
This email is monitored during business hours Monday to Friday excluding
Public Holidays.
The Open Arms Veterans & Families Counselling service is available to
support members of the veteran and ex-service community and their families
and can be contacted toll free on 1800 011 046 (24/7). This number is for
counselling only. If you require urgent assistance, please call 000. If
you are unwell, please contact your local doctor or go to your nearest
hospital. You can also visit the Open Arms
website [1]https://www.openarms.gov.au/
References
Visible links
1. https://www.openarms.gov.au/%0dThe%20Saf...
Dear Mr Jordan,
The Parliamentary & Governance Branch has reviewed your request. They
would like to provide a response to you as per the following:
DVA has not implemented any changes to ESORT or its composition since Ms
Pope’s appearance before the Royal Commission on 15 April 2022. There have
been three membership changes, due to executive changes within the
ex-service organisation itself, but this has not been driven by DVA.
• Australian Peacekeepers and Peacemakers Veteran Association
of Australia (APPVA
• Defence Force Welfare Association (DFWA)
• Defence Reserves Australia (DRA) have changed presidents/
chairpersons since April 2022.
Please find the below extracted information DVA has provided to the Royal
Commission in regards the NCF and the ESORT composition.
On 9 April 2009, the then Minister for Veterans’ Affairs, the Hon Alan
Griffin MP, announced new consultative arrangements for the veteran
community. These arrangements were an outcome of the discussion paper,
seeking the views of the ex-service and Defence communities regarding the
establishment of a Prime Ministerial Advisory Council on Veterans’ Mental
Health (PMAC), and a complementary framework administered by the Secretary
of DVA.
The National Consultation Framework (NCF) was developed to provide a
strong foundation for the Repatriation Commission, the Military
Rehabilitation and Compensation Commission and DVA to work closely with
representatives of the ex-service and defence communities. The Framework
currently comprises forums in each state and territory and five national
forums.
The national forums include the Ex-Service Organisation Round Table
(ESORT), Younger Veterans Contemporary Needs Forum (YVF), National Aged
and Community Care Forum (NACCF), Operational Working Party (OWP) and the
Female Veterans’ and Families Policy Forum.
Composition of ESORT
Membership is comprised of National Presidents and/or National
Chairpersons of 15 prominent ex service organisations with a national
reach. Members of the Repatriation Commission and the Military
Rehabilitation and Compensation Commission (MRCC) are ex officio members
of ESORT.
Membership of ESORT is comprised of the following organisations;
• Australian Federation of Totally and Permanently
Incapacitated Ex-Servicemen and Women;
• Australian Peacekeepers and Peacemakers Veterans Association
Inc;
• Defence Families Australia;
• Defence Force Welfare Association;
• Defence Reserves Association;
• Legacy Australia Inc.;
• Partners of Veterans’ Association;
• Naval Association of Australia;
• Returned and Services League of Australia;
• Royal Australian Air Force Association;
• Royal Australian Regiment Corporation;
• Vietnam Veterans Association of Australia;
• Vietnam Veterans Federation of Australia;
• Australian Special Air Service Association;
• Australian War widows Inc; and
• all members of the Repatriation Commission and the Military
Rehabilitation and Compensation Commission.
Membership of all NCF forums, including ESORT, are assigned to
organisations, rather than specific individuals and members hold their
position on the forums at the behest of their organisation
For more information about NCF please visit the link below:
[1]https://www.dva.gov.au/about-us/overview...
The ESORT Chair has confirmed that a review of the NCF will be conducted
later in 2023 after consultation on the Legislative Reform Pathway has
been completed. If you wish to be notified when that happens the team is
happy to take on your details and advise you when the review is finished.
As per the above information, it is more beneficial for you to lodge a
fresh FOI request after the NCF review later this year, as there will be
more information and guidelines about potential changes on ESORT (if there
is any).
We are suggesting if you are in the position to withdraw this request
based on the above information. If we receive no reply from you by COB 17
April 2023, we consider this request as withdrawn.
Kind regards,
Frankie| Information Access Officer
Position 62210799
Information Access Unit I Client Access and Rehabilitation Branch
Client Engagement and Support Services Division
Department of Veterans’ Affairs
Tel 1800 VETERAN (1800 838 372)
[DVA request email]
-----Original Message-----
From: Arthur Jordan <[FOI #10106 email]>
Sent: Sunday, 26 March 2023 10:26 AM
To: INFORMATION.ACCESS <[email address]>
Subject: Freedom of Information request - Planned ESORT changes in line
with evidence at Royal Commission into Defence and Veterans Suicide.
Dear Department of Veterans' Affairs,
Background:- Sworn evidence given by senior DVA staff before Commissioners
Kaldas and Douglas regarding the composition of ESORT.
15 April 2022
More interesting evidence from Kate Pope (DVA) recently regarding the
composition of the ESORT.
"CHAIR: Just a couple of brief points.
Ms Pope, you just discussed with Commissioner Douglas the issue of the
ESOs, but I gather for your ESO Round Table, you have a smaller number
than the 3,500 to 5,000 that we are hearing about. How are they selected?
KATE POPE: That is a good question. The ESO Round Table was established
long before I joined the department six years ago, so -- but they are the
organisations you would expect to see. So the RSL, the War Widows Guild,
the Legacy. I could list them on the -- Vietnam Veterans' Associations,
and so on and so forth, but I can't really say how they came to be the
core of that group, but they are the established and recognised
organisations.
We also have other forums, including the Younger Veterans Forum, that has
representation from some of the newer organisations that are more focused
on younger veterans, and we also have one focused on older veterans and
issues of ageing, and so on. So there are some more sort of special
interest focused forums under the banner of a National Consultative Forum
that we operate, but the ESORT is the principal one with the established
ex-service organisations.
CHAIR: I appreciate that, and I am not being critical in any way, but is
it sort of a position for life? It is not assessed on a five-yearly basis,
or something?
KATE POPE: Not that I am aware of, no.
CHAIR: So once you're in, you're in.
KATE POPE: You kind of in, yes.".
It appears that the RC thinks that the ESORT membership is definitely in
need of a refresher, at least every 5 years.
04 August 2022
...and once again:-
"CHAIR: Thank you.
Ms Pope, just in relation to the ESORT, the group that comes together, we
have heard evidence about it previously on a number of occasions, and
please forgive me if my memory is not the best, but I understand there is
some work going on at the moment in terms of defining criteria for
membership and possibly for tenure of how long membership is for. I
understand at the moment there is no limited tenure; people are on there,
effectively, for life. Can you let us know where that is at, if there is a
work going on in that space?
KATE POPE: I'm sorry, I'm actually not aware of work going on in that
space. There could be, but I'm not directly responsible for it. So I am
sorry, I don't really know.
CHAIR: No problem. Are you able to take that on notice and perhaps the
Department can get back to us on that issue? My memory, and I'm happy to
be corrected, from previous evidence from other senior officers is that
they were looking at that issue, because at the moment, as I understand
it, both in terms of eligibility for membership and for tenure of
membership, it's not clear.
KATE POPE: I can certainly confirm that what you just said is accurate, to
my understanding, and yes, we would be happy to take the question for
future on notice.
CHAIR: I'd be grateful if we can find out if there is work going on in
terms of defining these issues more clearly or not.
KATE POPE: Yes, certainly."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CHAIR: Thank you. You mentioned earlier that legislation is an area crying
out for reform. You would agree with that?
A. Yes.
CHAIR: You mentioned earlier and I think you stated clearly that you were
surprised there hadn't been more legal legwork done to reform legislation?
A. Yes, it would have been useful to see some options
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMISSIONER DOUGLAS: And then about ESORT, you mentioned it. And what
we've heard before ESORT's composition seems to be fixed by DVA and to
remain fixed. Is there any view that you have about whether ESORT should
be -- have some more flexible and representative body?
A. Yes, I think so, that is one of the things that I think they should be
looking at in terms of potentially opening it up.
I seen copies of all documents (including drafts) relating to changes by
DVA to ESORT and its composition in line with the comments of DVA staff
reproduced herewith.
I do not seek details of any private individuals. Details of any
Commonwealth employees including but not limited to their work email
address, work telephone numbers and names are to be treated as in scope
and are not to be redacted. Follow the OAIC guidelines and policies.
Yours faithfully,
Arthur Jordan
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Please use this email address for all replies to this request:
[2][FOI #10106 email]
Is [3][DVA request email] the wrong address for Freedom of
Information requests to Department of Veterans' Affairs? If so, please
contact us using this form:
[4]https://www.righttoknow.org.au/change_re...
This request has been made by an individual using Right to Know. This
message and any reply that you make will be published on the internet.
More information on how Right to Know works can be found at:
[5]https://www.righttoknow.org.au/help/offi...
Please note that in some cases publication of requests and responses will
be delayed.
If you find this service useful as an FOI officer, please ask your web
manager to link to us from your organisation's FOI page.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
References
Visible links
1. https://www.dva.gov.au/about-us/overview...
2. mailto:[FOI #10106 email]
3. mailto:[DVA request email]
4. https://www.righttoknow.org.au/change_re...
5. https://www.righttoknow.org.au/help/offi...
Dear Department of Veterans' Affairs,
Please pass this on to the person who conducts Freedom of Information reviews.
I am writing to request an internal review of Department of Veterans' Affair's handling of my FOI request 'Planned ESORT changes in line with evidence at Royal Commission into Defence and Veterans Suicide.'.
I am NOT prepared to withdraw this FOI application. It has been almost 12 months to the day that Kate Pope gave sworn evidence to the Royal Commission into Defence and Veterans Suicide regarding suggestions from Commissioners Kaldas and Douglas indicating that changes were needed and that she would take that on notice and get back to that Commission. I am seeking documents relating to her sworn evidence. If nothing has been done for almost 12 months, then that needs to be advised to the Minister and the Royal Commissioners. It is now up to you to explain why you have not done anything since 15th April 2022 (yes, last year).
A full history of my FOI request and all correspondence is available on the Internet at this address: https://www.righttoknow.org.au/request/p...
Yours faithfully,
Arthur Jordan
Thank you for your email. Please accept this automatic reply as
confirmation the Information Access Unit has received your email. An IA
Officer will contact you in due course, we appreciate your patience in the
interim.
This email is monitored during business hours Monday to Friday excluding
Public Holidays.
The Open Arms Veterans & Families Counselling service is available to
support members of the veteran and ex-service community and their families
and can be contacted toll free on 1800 011 046 (24/7). This number is for
counselling only. If you require urgent assistance, please call 000. If
you are unwell, please contact your local doctor or go to your nearest
hospital. You can also visit the Open Arms
website [1]https://www.openarms.gov.au/
References
Visible links
1. https://www.openarms.gov.au/%0dThe%20Saf...
Dear Mr Jordan
Thank you for your email.
As you indicated that you do not wish to withdraw the FOI request - LEX
56871, the request remains current.
Unfortuately, at this moment you cannot request an internal review of this
decision until it is offically finalised.
I will inform the line area about your email below. If there is further
information and update from their end about this request I will contact
you again in due course.
Kind regards,
Frankie| Information Access Officer
Position 62210799
Information Access Unit I Client Access and Rehabilitation Branch
Client Engagement and Support Services Division
Department of Veterans’ Affairs
Tel 1800 VETERAN (1800 838 372)
[DVA request email]
-----Original Message-----
From: Arthur Jordan <[FOI #10106 email]>
Sent: Wednesday, 12 April 2023 5:53 PM
To: INFORMATION.ACCESS <[email address]>
Subject: Internal review of Freedom of Information request - Planned ESORT
changes in line with evidence at Royal Commission into Defence and
Veterans Suicide.
Dear Department of Veterans' Affairs,
Please pass this on to the person who conducts Freedom of Information
reviews.
I am writing to request an internal review of Department of Veterans'
Affair's handling of my FOI request 'Planned ESORT changes in line with
evidence at Royal Commission into Defence and Veterans Suicide.'.
I am NOT prepared to withdraw this FOI application. It has been almost 12
months to the day that Kate Pope gave sworn evidence to the Royal
Commission into Defence and Veterans Suicide regarding suggestions from
Commissioners Kaldas and Douglas indicating that changes were needed and
that she would take that on notice and get back to that Commission. I am
seeking documents relating to her sworn evidence. If nothing has been
done for almost 12 months, then that needs to be advised to the Minister
and the Royal Commissioners. It is now up to you to explain why you have
not done anything since 15th April 2022 (yes, last year).
A full history of my FOI request and all correspondence is available on
the Internet at this address:
[1]https://www.righttoknow.org.au/request/p...
Yours faithfully,
Arthur Jordan
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Please use this email address for all replies to this request:
[2][FOI #10106 email]
This request has been made by an individual using Right to Know. This
message and any reply that you make will be published on the internet.
More information on how Right to Know works can be found at:
[3]https://www.righttoknow.org.au/help/offi...
Please note that in some cases publication of requests and responses will
be delayed.
If you find this service useful as an FOI officer, please ask your web
manager to link to us from your organisation's FOI page.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
References
Visible links
1. https://www.righttoknow.org.au/request/p...
2. mailto:[FOI #10106 email]
3. https://www.righttoknow.org.au/help/offi...
Dear Mr Jordan
Thank you for your information access request LEX 56871.
Please find attached my decision letter and documents relating to your request.
Kind regards,
Frankie| Information Access Officer
Position 62210799
Information Access Unit I Client Access and Rehabilitation Branch
Client Engagement and Support Services Division
Department of Veterans’ Affairs
[DVA request email]
www.dva.gov.au
-----Original Message-----
From: Arthur Jordan <[FOI #10106 email]>
Sent: Wednesday, 12 April 2023 5:53 PM
To: INFORMATION.ACCESS <[email address]>
Subject: Internal review of Freedom of Information request - Planned ESORT changes in line with evidence at Royal Commission into Defence and Veterans Suicide.
Dear Department of Veterans' Affairs,
Please pass this on to the person who conducts Freedom of Information reviews.
I am writing to request an internal review of Department of Veterans' Affair's handling of my FOI request 'Planned ESORT changes in line with evidence at Royal Commission into Defence and Veterans Suicide.'.
I am NOT prepared to withdraw this FOI application. It has been almost 12 months to the day that Kate Pope gave sworn evidence to the Royal Commission into Defence and Veterans Suicide regarding suggestions from Commissioners Kaldas and Douglas indicating that changes were needed and that she would take that on notice and get back to that Commission. I am seeking documents relating to her sworn evidence. If nothing has been done for almost 12 months, then that needs to be advised to the Minister and the Royal Commissioners. It is now up to you to explain why you have not done anything since 15th April 2022 (yes, last year).
A full history of my FOI request and all correspondence is available on the Internet at this address: https://www.righttoknow.org.au/request/p...
Yours faithfully,
Arthur Jordan
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Please use this email address for all replies to this request:
[FOI #10106 email]
This request has been made by an individual using Right to Know. This message and any reply that you make will be published on the internet. More information on how Right to Know works can be found at:
https://www.righttoknow.org.au/help/offi...
Please note that in some cases publication of requests and responses will be delayed.
If you find this service useful as an FOI officer, please ask your web manager to link to us from your organisation's FOI page.
-------------------------------------------------------------------