My Marrickville app development costs
Henare Degan made this Government Information (Public Access) request to Marrickville Council
This request has been closed to new correspondence from the public body. Contact us if you think it ought be re-opened.
Dear Marrickville Council,
I'd like to know how much we spent on the development of the new My Marrickville smart phone applications. So I'd like to make an informal access application for all invoices since 1 January 2015 from the application developer, which appears to be Acresta Mobile.
If there's a better way to request this information or if it would assist if I changed the scope of my request, I'm happy to do so. If you're unable to process this request as an informal access application, please consider this a formal GIPA request.
Many thanks,
Henare Degan
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P: +61 2 9335 2222 | E: [email address]
[Marrickville Council]
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This message and any attachment are confidential and may be privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you must not copy, reproduce, disseminate or distribute this message or any attachment. If you are not the intended recipient please email the sender or notify Marrickville Council and delete this message and any attachment from your system. Any views expressed in this email transmission may represent those of the individual sender and may include information that has not been approved by Marrickville Council. The Council will not be responsible for any reliance upon personal views or information not approved by Marrickville Council. Marrickville Council advises that this email and any attachments should be scanned to detect viruses and accepts no liability for loss or damage resulting from the use of any attached files.
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Hi Henare –
Yes, this would need to be a Formal Access Application – form attached. In
order for the request to be considered a vaild Formal Access Application
it must comply with sec41 of the GIPA Act. The scope of the request seems
fine – if it becomes an issue for some reason I’ll let you know. Also,
we’ll need to consult any third parties (such as Acresta Mobile) – when
your form is received I can send a separate email detailing the
consultation process.
Kind Regards,
Jennifer
Jennifer Robinson | Governance Officer
Marrickville Council | 2-14 Fisher Street, Petersham NSW 2049 |
[1]www.marrickville.nsw.gov.au
P: +61 2 9335 2072 | E: [email address]
[2]Marrickville Council [3]International Women's Day - Sat 5 March,
3-5pm
Marrickville Council acknowledges the Traditional Custodians of this land,
the Cadigal-Wangal people of the Eora Nation.
From: Henare Degan [mailto:[FOI #1558 email]]
Sent: Friday, 19 February 2016 9:20 AM
To: Marrickville Council
Subject: Government Information (Public Access) request - My Marrickville
app development costs
Dear Marrickville Council,
I'd like to know how much we spent on the development of the new My
Marrickville smart phone applications. So I'd like to make an informal
access application for all invoices since 1 January 2015 from the
application developer, which appears to be Acresta Mobile.
If there's a better way to request this information or if it would assist
if I changed the scope of my request, I'm happy to do so. If you're unable
to process this request as an informal access application, please consider
this a formal GIPA request.
Many thanks,
Henare Degan
-------------------------------------------------------------------
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[4][FOI #1558 email]
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please contact us using this form:
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This request has been made by an individual using Right to Know. This
message and any reply that you make will be published on the internet.
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If you find this service useful as an FOI officer, please ask your web
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Hi Jennifer,
Thanks for your prompt reply and for letting me know that this needs to be a formal access application (although I'll admit the distinction is still a mystery to me!).
I understand it's not a requirement of the GIPA Act to fill out that form and I'd like to keep things simple via email if that's OK with you. Obviously to comply with sec41 of the GIPA Act I will need to pay the fee so please let me know how I can do that.
I'd also like to reserve my right to seek a reduction in processing charges should the need arise.
Yours sincerely,
Henare Degan
Hi Henare,
Information which is not made available as a matter of course or defined mandatory or proactive release, by legislation or Council policy, may be applied for under the GIPA Act through a Formal Access application. You can also refer to the GIPA Act Regulation 2009 Schedule 1, as it has a pretty straightforward list specifically for local government. Other things which may affect whether or not something is Formal is volume and if there are third parties that need to be consulted.
To make it a valid Formal Access Application, in addition to a description of the request and a clear "this is Formal" statement (both I feel you've done!), I need:
A postal address
Payment ($30)
Please contact customer service to organise payment (9335-2222 / [Marrickville Council request email] / 2 Fisher Street Petersham).
You can pay:
In person: cash, cheque, card
Over the phone: card
Email: attached card form
Mail: attached form, cheque
I'm happy to discount any additional processing charges as I agree this is in the public interest.
Please email me back to confirm payment and with a postal address.
Kind Regards,
Jennifer
Jennifer Robinson | Governance Officer
Marrickville Council | 2-14 Fisher Street, Petersham NSW 2049 | www.marrickville.nsw.gov.au
P: +61 2 9335 2072 | E: [email address]
Marrickville Council acknowledges the Traditional Custodians of this land, the Cadigal-Wangal people of the Eora Nation.
Hi Henare -
I just had one more thought, since I've read through a lot of your website and spoken to Luke about volunteering (I haven't, only because my toddler... well...kids! I'm also a non-attending member of the MeetUp Group).
I'm raising this because I think it's an interesting opportunity to discuss it with someone genuinely interested in GIPAA, and because I know you guys use GIPAA/FOI more than your average citizen (which is great - your questions are always what the legislation was written for!). I hope you don't mind.
While it's not a requirement to fill out the form, I'm really not sure why one wouldn't. It may be easier for you, but for ME it's much simpler to have everything on the form. I wrote and designed the form for a reason: it makes it easier and more convenient for me (and everyone else) to make sure I have everything I need. I raised your Merit myself as I fully expect customer service to be confused when processing your payment because there is no form to go with it. They need something to record the payment to, and a reason why you are paying it. I still half expect them to call me about it when you attempt to pay - we'll see.
I process approximately 100 Formals and 2000 Informals a year - and I do mean "I" (not "my team" or "we" - *just me*). It makes it easier to process multiple applications and standardises my recordkeeping. These are all good things both for my day-to-day workflow, and for you to make sure your request is processed in a timely manner and so that our recordkeeping and process is transparent. It makes it easy for someone else potentially reviewing my decision or recordkeeping to confirm that it is a valid request (Application form? Check! Instead of... where is the application form? Why is there no application form? Is it this email? Now I have to read through this email and figure out if it met all the requirements...etc.) From my point of view, this sort of thing makes government less transparent rather than more.
I'm happy to process this without the form, but we do really appreciate people using the form anyway even if it's not technically a requirement.
Kind Regards,
Jen
Jennifer Robinson | Governance Officer
Marrickville Council | 2-14 Fisher Street, Petersham NSW 2049 | www.marrickville.nsw.gov.au
P: +61 2 9335 2072 | E: [email address]
Marrickville Council acknowledges the Traditional Custodians of this land, the Cadigal-Wangal people of the Eora Nation.
Hi Henare -
I need to send your acknowledgment letter tomorrow.
In order for your request to be a valid one the application fee must be paid ($30) and I need a postal address. If the application isn't valid I will send a letter notifying you as such, and outlining what needs to be done in order to validate the request. No further research would be undertaken until a valid application is made.
Kind Regards,
Jennifer
Jennifer Robinson | Governance Officer
Marrickville Council | 2-14 Fisher Street, Petersham NSW 2049 | www.marrickville.nsw.gov.au
P: +61 2 9335 2072 | E: [email address]
Marrickville Council acknowledges the Traditional Custodians of this land, the Cadigal-Wangal people of the Eora Nation.
Friday, 26 February 2016
Dear Henare,
The acknowledgement letter (invalid application) in response to your
recently lodged Formal Access Application is attached to this email.
Please don’t hesitate to contact me if you have any questions, or if you
would like a hard copy posted to you.
Kind Regards,
[ ]
Jennifer Robinson | Governance Officer
Marrickville Council | 2-14 Fisher Street, Petersham NSW 2049 |
[1]www.marrickville.nsw.gov.au
P: +61 2 9335 2072 | E: [email address]
[2]Marrickville Council [3]International Women's Day - Sat 5 March,
3-5pm
Marrickville Council acknowledges the Traditional Custodians of this land,
the Cadigal-Wangal people of the Eora Nation.
References
Visible links
1. Marrickville Council website
http://www.marrickville.nsw.gov.au/
3. http://www.marrickville.nsw.gov.au/en/ou...
Hi Henare!
You caught me right as I was about to leave. I’m out of the office
tomorrow, send me an email if you like – otherwise I’ll give you a ring on
Thursday.
Kind Regards,
Jennifer
Jennifer Robinson | Governance Officer
Marrickville Council | 2-14 Fisher Street, Petersham NSW 2049 |
[1]www.marrickville.nsw.gov.au
P: +61 2 9335 2072 | E: [email address]
[2]Marrickville Council [3]International Women's Day - Sat 5 March,
3-5pm
Marrickville Council acknowledges the Traditional Custodians of this land,
the Cadigal-Wangal people of the Eora Nation.
References
Visible links
1. Marrickville Council website
http://www.marrickville.nsw.gov.au/
3. http://www.marrickville.nsw.gov.au/en/ou...
Hi Jennifer,
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you, I was unexpectedly called away. Thank you once again for all the detail you've provided and for our phone discussion earlier.
I'd like to start by clearly stating that I'm submitting this request as a private resident of Marrickville Council and not on behalf of any organisation or my employer.
I've paid the application fee over the phone and I’ll email you my postal address from my personal email account. Please continue to use this email address for correspondence and do not use my personal email address or postal address for correspondence. Please also ensure not to include the postal address I've provided on any correspondence you send to this email address.
I trust that once you receive my payment then you can begin to process my request.
Since you generously took the time to explain why you'd prefer an application form, I'd like to take the time to provide a response and explain it from the citizen's point of view.
>"While it's not a requirement to fill out the form, I'm really not sure why one wouldn't. It may be easier for you, but for ME it's much simpler to have everything on the form. I wrote and designed the form for a reason: it makes it easier and more convenient for me (and everyone else) to make sure I have everything I need. I raised your Merit myself as I fully expect customer service to be confused when processing your payment because there is no form to go with it. They need something to record the payment to, and a reason why you are paying it. I still half expect them to call me about it when you attempt to pay - we'll see."
I can understand how filling out an application form could make it simpler for a public body to process a request. However it makes it much harder for citizens to make a request. It puts the onus on the citizen to learn the system instead of the system learning how the citizen expects to make a request. If every public body has a different form then the citizen must learn how to use a new form every time they wish to make a request.
This design principle is one of user-centred design and is included in the Federal Digital Transformation Office's Digital Service Standard, "Start with needs: user needs, not government needs":
https://www.dto.gov.au/standard/design-p...
>"I process approximately 100 Formals and 2000 Informals a year - and I do mean "I" (not "my team" or "we" - *just me*). It makes it easier to process multiple applications and standardises my recordkeeping. These are all good things both for my day-to-day workflow, and for you to make sure your request is processed in a timely manner and so that our recordkeeping and process is transparent. It makes it easy for someone else potentially reviewing my decision or recordkeeping to confirm that it is a valid request (Application form? Check! Instead of... where is the application form? Why is there no application form? Is it this email? Now I have to read through this email and figure out if it met all the requirements...etc.) From my point of view, this sort of thing makes government less transparent rather than more."
If an application form helps then why not have the experts that created it fill it out (the public body) instead of the novice (the citizen)? Surely it's more likely to be accurate and therefore better for recordkeeping and transparency. It's certainly a much better experience for the citizen.
You do an amazing job of processing so many requests single-handedly! I can understand how you'd appreciate anything that alleviates your workload but should this burden be shifted to the citizen? Providing access to information is a mandatory function of every public body and should be properly resourced. Officers like yourself shouldn't be forced to bear the burden of improper resourcing.
Thanks again for taking the time to process my request and help me through this process.
Yours sincerely,
Henare
Hi Henare -
First of all, of course I'm happy to withhold your personal contact details.
Pardon my paraphrasing:
I don't disagree. I have mixed feelings about completing a form for someone, although I am very likely to do so and simply put a note on the last page explaining what I've done and why. I think the only thing missing when we don't receive a form - at least of sorts - is a signature (and ID). This would primarily be an issue when lodging for personal/third party information, the type of request you quite rightly discourage the use of the website for. I also think there should be standardised forms AND more public education (have you seen the work done by the Center for Urban Pedagogy? *Sigh*). There are a lot of things GIPAA and Privacy officers are pushing the IPC for.
This is a complex issue of course; all I'll say is that working for local government is a lot more like working for a non-profit than it is working for private sector finance (I've done all three).
=)
Jennifer Robinson | Governance Officer
Marrickville Council | 2-14 Fisher Street, Petersham NSW 2049 | www.marrickville.nsw.gov.au
P: +61 2 9335 2072 | E: [email address]
Marrickville Council acknowledges the Traditional Custodians of this land, the Cadigal-Wangal people of the Eora Nation.
Thursday, 10 March 2016
Dear Henare,
The acknowledgement letter in response to your recently lodged Formal
Access Application is attached to this email.
Please don’t hesitate to contact me if you have any questions, or if you
would like a hard copy posted to you.
Kind Regards,
[ ]
Jennifer Robinson | Governance Officer
Marrickville Council | 2-14 Fisher Street, Petersham NSW 2049 |
[1]www.marrickville.nsw.gov.au
P: +61 2 9335 2072 | E: [email address]
[2]Marrickville Council [3]Bairro Festival 2016
Marrickville Council acknowledges the Traditional Custodians of this land,
the Cadigal-Wangal people of the Eora Nation.
References
Visible links
1. Marrickville Council website
http://www.marrickville.nsw.gov.au/
3. http://www.marrickville.nsw.gov.au/en/ou...
Thursday, March 31, 2016
Good afternoon,
I have located the requested information, however as the name of the developer is publically available it is impossible to anonymise the invoice and release it simply as a statement of what Council spent on the app.
In order to release we'll need to go through the consultation process as outlined in GIPA Act Sec54 (specifically 2b).
This will not incur any additional expense, but it will set the date of determination back by approximately 5-10 business days in order to accommodate a response time (Sec54 (2)(a)).
The consultation letter will state the nature of the request (already publically available on this website), a deadline for their response, and information about their rights as a third party.
Please reply at your earliest convenience and confirm that it is okay to proceed with the consultation process.
Please don't hesitate to contact me if you have any questions or concerns.
Kind Regards,
Jennifer
Jennifer Robinson | Governance Officer
Marrickville Council | 2-14 Fisher Street, Petersham NSW 2049 | www.marrickville.nsw.gov.au
P: +61 2 9335 2072 | E: [email address]
Marrickville Council acknowledges the Traditional Custodians of this land, the Cadigal-Wangal people of the Eora Nation.
This message and any attachment are confidential and may be privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you must not copy, reproduce, disseminate or distribute this message or any attachment. If you are not the intended recipient please email the sender or notify Marrickville Council and delete this message and any attachment from your system. Any views expressed in this email transmission may represent those of the individual sender and may include information that has not been approved by Marrickville Council. The Council will not be responsible for any reliance upon personal views or information not approved by Marrickville Council. Marrickville Council advises that this email and any attachments should be scanned to detect viruses and accepts no liability for loss or damage resulting from the use of any attached files.
For further information about Marrickville Council please visit our website at www.marrickville.nsw.gov.au
Hi Jennifer,
It is okay to proceed with the consultation process.
Yours sincerely,
Henare Degan
Monday, 18 April 2016
Formal Determination - Degan
Dear Henare,
Please find attached a copy of the determination made in response to your
Formal Access Application.
Please don’t hesitate to contact me if you have any questions.
Kind Regards,
Jennifer Robinson | Governance Officer
Marrickville Council | 2-14 Fisher Street, Petersham NSW 2049 |
[1]www.marrickville.nsw.gov.au
P: +61 2 9335 2072 | E: [email address]
[2]Marrickville Council
Marrickville Council acknowledges the Traditional Custodians of this land,
the Cadigal-Wangal people of the Eora Nation.
References
Visible links
1. Marrickville Council website
http://www.marrickville.nsw.gov.au/
Hi Henare,
I noticed that this Formal is listed as “long overdue”. The third party’s
review rights have not yet expired and the information isn’t currently
scheduled to be released until 14 June, in accordance with the delayed
timeframe outlined in the legislation.
Thanks -
Jennifer Robinson | Governance Officer, Marrickville
Inner West Council
P: +61 2 9335 2072 | E: [email address]
Ashfield Service Centre: 260 Liverpool Road, Ashfield NSW 2131
Leichhardt Service Centre: 7-15 Wetherill Street, Leichhardt NSW 2040
Petersham Service Centre: 2-14 Fisher Street, Petersham NSW 2049
[1]Marrickville Council
Council acknowledges the Traditional Custodians of this land, the
Cadigal-Wangal people of the Eora Nation.
________________________________________________________________________
This email has been scanned by Symantec Email Security.cloud service on
behalf of Inner West Council.
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Tuesday, 14 June 2016
Formal Determination - Degan
Dear Henare,
Please find attached a copy of the determination made in response to your
Formal Access Application.
Please don’t hesitate to contact me if you have any questions.
Kind Regards,
Jennifer Robinson | Governance Officer, Marrickville
Inner West Council
P: +61 2 9335 2072 | E: [email address]
Ashfield Service Centre: 260 Liverpool Road, Ashfield NSW 2131
Leichhardt Service Centre: 7-15 Wetherill Street, Leichhardt NSW 2040
Petersham Service Centre: 2-14 Fisher Street, Petersham NSW 2049
[1]Marrickville Council
Council acknowledges the Traditional Custodians of this land, the
Gadigal-Wangal people of the Eora Nation.
________________________________________________________________________
This email has been scanned by Symantec Email Security.cloud service on
behalf of Inner West Council.
________________________________________________________________________
References
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